Transcript
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Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on another episode of the Dorsal Earth Show.
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Today we have a special guest with us.
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Her name is Brigitte Dunbar.
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She has experienced the tragic loss of her son at birth and, as a result, is the author of the book Grief Loss and the Goodness of God.
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Lizzie holds a master's degree in marriage and family therapy and currently offers faith-based grief coaching.
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Lizzie, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
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Thank you so much.
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I'm so honored, definitely.
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Well, I like to usually start off the show with a icebreaker question, and today is what's your favorite movie and what does it reveal about you?
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I my favorite movie?
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That's a great question.
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My favorite movie actually is Pride and Prejudice, and I think what it reveals about me is well one.
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I just love the time period it's set in.
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It's just set in a time period where everything is much slower.
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You kind of rode horses or walked places, and I think that the characters in it really wrestled with facing themselves honestly, which was facing their own pride or prejudices that were keeping them from just the life that they really did desire.
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So yeah, and another one is what did you want to be when you were a kid, and why?
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You know, what's funny is I actually wanted to be a mom Ever since I was young.
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I have a wonderful mom, and I just saw it as such a great experience, something I wanted to experience, and so I remember at a young age I wanted to be a mom, and so that was my goal in life.
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What's your favorite quote Quote?
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Yeah, what's your favorite quote?
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Oh, that's a good one.
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My favorite quote?
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I'm not really sure you know.
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I think that it'd probably be something along the lines of it, honestly, probably be a scripture.
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To be honest, it's my favorite quote in scripture is really, you know that you'll have that I can face that that God hasn't already been there and conquered for me?
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Yeah, can you tell us a little bit?
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more about yourself, about your life and about your story of faith.
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Yeah, so I, you know, I grew up from a young age knowing the Lord and I loved, I loved God, I love Jesus and I always wanted to go to church and so I kind of grew up just feeling like that was my second home.
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And so I think I grew up just really seeking God at a young age, which was a great foundation for me growing up.
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And as I grew up I got married.
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My former husband at the time became a pastor.
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Him and I worked in the church together in pastoral leadership positions and I just found a whole other side of faith and religion and I'm glad for those experiences that I've had.
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And since then I've kind of come to a point of just really seeking out what does it look like to serve God in everyday life?
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And now I have been a licensed marriage family therapist for over a decade.
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I now have taken all of my experience in the world of psychology, marriage, family therapy and also pastoral counseling and ministry and put it together and so I serve people at a different capacity, that I put all of that together to really bring breakthrough for people and why are you passionate about what you do?
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And tell us a little bit more about what you do.
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Oftentimes, you know, it's difficult to really create the life that we want and also that God intended for us, because there's such a battle in our mind, and I think that's why people seek therapy, they seek counseling, they seek, you know, resources in the church, pastoral support, and yet what I've found is that all of those by themselves can sometimes be limited, and so I have such an array of different backgrounds, so I've put everything into one package for people, and I'm really passionate about that, because I love seeing people get breakthrough, I mean big or small.
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I actually think that we were designed to go from glory to glory, and really what that looks like very simply is just breakthrough to breakthrough, like one breakthrough to one breakthrough, and breakthrough can look big or small, but it's just progress in life in wherever you need it, wherever you feel stuck, and so I'm really passionate about helping people get unstuck.
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And so I'm really passionate about helping people get unstuck Now, is that first in dealing with grief, or is that dealing with anything that somebody brings to you?
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Hey, I'm stuck in the job.
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I don't want to be here anymore.
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I'm stuck in my finances.
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How do I get unstuck with that?
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Yeah, you know right, it's everything.
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So I love working with people that have experienced grief of any kind.
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I mean I wrote a book on it.
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It was my whole is a big chunk of my life that I went through deep grieving, and so I am passionate definitely about helping people overcome the struggles that grief just naturally brings into our life.
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Overcome the struggles that grief just naturally brings into our life.
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But my services are for everyone.
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I work with anyone, whether it's, you know, job performance or just dissatisfaction, relationships or grief or loss.
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You know you're going through maybe a life transition and you just don't you don't have clarity on what's next.
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So I actually I do it all.
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What inspired you and motivated you to write your book Grief, love and the Goodness of God.
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Yeah, so I actually, you know, going back to always wanting to be a mother ever since I was little, I got pregnant and had a miscarriage, which is pretty common amongst women, and that really kind of turned my world upside down.
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I got pregnant again shortly after that and carried that baby all the way to 35 weeks and then when he was born, he was born stillborn, so he was born not alive, and that really really shook my whole world.
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And so I kind of experienced two losses pregnancy losses back to back, and I, you know, everything that I had believed in just my faith and everything it really I wouldn't say you know crumbled, but it got challenged.
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I went through a period of my life where I was just so depressed I didn't really know what life looked like.
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I had experienced other losses too.
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Around that time I'd lost a family member, experienced other losses too.
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Around that time I'd lost a family member, my marriage and my position at my church, just because I couldn't hold that position while grieving anymore, and so in that I lost my community with that, and so there's so many losses that it really kind of leveled my life out and I didn't know what to do or what life looked like and I actually really wrestled with God in that time and what I recognized was that a lot of people go through this at various levels and I wanted to put my experience in a book and also my experiences in helping people, because at the time too, I was also doing grief counseling and helping people walk through that, and I recognized in myself and in my clients that walking through loss like that is really difficult and I don't know how many amazing or effective resources there were when I was grieving.
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I was looking for stuff for me.
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Effective resources there were.
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When I was grieving, I was looking for stuff for me and I it was just it felt like I kind of had to piece stuff together, and so I wanted to put everything I've learned and experienced in a book and help those who are walking through it find healing and hope on the other side of that.
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What does the you know the title of your book is, you know, grief, Loss and the Goodness of God.
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What does that?
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What does the goodness of God look like when someone is dealing with grief, grief and loss?
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I'll say that.
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But what I found, that it looked like for me, was that in my deepest, darkest, soul-searching hours, I found God there, and I think that I recognize that, even when life feels hopeless and dark, that God is still with us.
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It's just a matter of recognizing Him.
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It's a matter of receiving Him, of inviting Him into that place of pain, of disappointment, of hurt, and I have so many stories looking back on where God's goodness showed up.
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I think when you're in it, you don't really see the goodness in the destruction of your life or everything.
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But but looking back, I I mean, god's goodness showed up in my life in so many different ways.
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I talk about it in the book, but you know, um, it like through people, through just uh, you know so many different things.
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I I actually, you know, had I have a story one time, so I it was maybe shortly after I had lost my son.
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I was crying at home.
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I was literally just like in bed in tears because I had actually uh, named my son intentionally.
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His name was Merit Mackay and, um, I believe that God gave me that name, I wanted to use it and I felt like I was grieving over the fact that I could never use his name, I could never say his name out loud because he wasn't there.
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I couldn't call him and be like hey, merit, come back here, whatever.
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And so I was just crying out to God one day like why did this happen?
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Like this is so sad.
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And I just remember feeling so much heavy grief over the fact that I could never use His name.
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And I'm kidding you not, I would say maybe a half an hour later I get a knock on my door and a friend of mine, a former pastor that I had known and worked with.
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She visited me and said I had a lot of people praying for you and shared your story of what happened with your son, and she has an organization that serves women in need in India.
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And so she had said that someone in their organization had reached out and wanted to know if I would be comfortable with them naming their organization after my son.
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And this specific organization was founded on the same day my son was born and it serves women who are looking for ways to have safe pregnancy deliveries.
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And so I mean like if that's not the goodness of God, I don't know what is.
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I mean it's so you know, to this day, that organization is still thriving and serving so many women in a great capacity, and I feel like my son's name gets to live on in that way.
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And you know, honestly, only God could do something like that.
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How did your experience of God affect you after your, or change you after your loss?
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My experience of God.
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You know, I think what I experienced of God so funny.
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When you go through something so difficult in life, it could be anything, I mean just anything that kind of just shakes your world up a little bit.
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You start to you either distance yourself from God or you press in, and I did both at various times.
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But when I pressed in I got to see a side of God that I otherwise would have never been able to see, because I think it's like when you're in such a dark place in life, you are searching for light, you're searching for hope, you're searching for something to kind of pick up your spirits that God's strength, his pursuit of me, his patience with me, his love for me, like all the things that I know about God.
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I got to experience at a whole other level, when I really, really truly needed all of those characteristics of God.
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I got to experience them at a level or a depth that I'd say is almost impossible to experience when you're not in the darkness and you need the light.
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You need God.
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What is the most difficult thing that you have to deal with with your coaching job or your counseling job, and it doesn't have to necessarily be on the grief side.
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It could be anything that you want to talk about the most difficult thing is that what you said, yeah, um.
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Well, you know, for me I don't know if it was difficult, but I think it was.
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Well, I'll say this.
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So you know, what I found in working with people, especially after my loss, was that I experienced a whole new level of empathy that I don't know if I had previously for those who are really walking through depression, anxiety, panic attacks, like all these symptoms that we hear.
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I was trained to help people overcome these symptoms and work through them, but when I was going through them myself and helping people overcome them, I found a level of empathy that I had not experienced previously, and I think that that actually benefited me.
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But it also brought me to a place of really just, I think, meeting my clients at a different level than I had before, and so it was both challenging but also really good for me and for them, and so I think that that was probably the biggest change that happened for me after my loss, when I was working with clients.
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What did you find most helpful when recovering from the walk of your of your kids.
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What I found most helpful, other than just staying close to the Lord, is reaching out to people.
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I think oftentimes when we go through something really difficult, we tend to naturally just as humans we tend to isolate fear, shame, just low energy, I know, in grief oftentimes you just don't actually have the energy to show up in conversations or with people like you used to, and so we just naturally tend to isolate.
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And I remember just a time in my life where I recognized, okay, I actually need people, I actually require relationships and in my life, where I can receive from them, I was always a giver Like I don't know if you can relate to this, but I felt like I always gave and I loved giving to relationships, I loved having this energy and showing up for people a certain way.
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And when I couldn't do that any longer, I noticed I started to isolate and I think the most helpful thing for anyone is just don't isolate.
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You know, lean into those relationships, whether it's family, friends, spouse, coworkers, whatever.
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It is that because people want to give to you like they want, they want to, they have something to give, and I think that oftentimes it's hard as humans for us to receive as it is to give, and so you know, I learned that receiving is a gift as well, and it's a gift that God wants to give to you and that oftentimes comes through other people, and so so I think what's helpful for anyone going through anything maybe difficult, grief or otherwise is just is pulling on those relationships, letting people pour into you, receiving the love or affirmations or your actual gifts that people want to give to you and so my community was huge in my healing process and I definitely talk about that in the book is just, you know, cause, cause, relationships change and um, and especially when, when you go through difficult things, some people it's uncomfortable for them to to know how to show up for you, and so, uh, you know you change in the process.
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I think just being able to really be present with relationships and friendships and knowing you know who to receive from is important, and allowing yourself to receive from others.
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You touched on it a little bit and that was going to be one of my other questions Talked on it a little bit and that was going to be one of my other questions.
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How do people, when they know a friend or relative or you know coworker or whatnot, is grieving or lost with someone, how should they respond, or you know, talk to that person?
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Should they, you know, should they bring it up?
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Should they just, you know, talk to them, be there for them, be a friend to them?
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Yeah, I actually love this question because a lot of people don't ask that and I think that oftentimes, when we go through something hard and isolating, we actually need somewhere to process that.
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Now, not everyone is someone we want to process it with Absolutely, but, you know, I think that for those who know that your friend or family or coworker is going through something, the best advice I can give knew was having infertility problems and difficulties around that.
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And I actually just recently have found out that I'm pregnant, which is a miracle and amazing.
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And so I'm in this state now where I just, you know, am so excited and in the celebratory place, but my friend, I know, is wrestling with infertility stuff, and so, instead of me trying to figure out what I can and can't share with her, around her, I just come out and ask.
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I just say, hey, how does it feel for you when I bring up my pregnancy, or how does it feel for you when you're going through this?
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What do you need?
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How can I be there for you if any way, in any way, and so I think, honestly, the best option is literally just acknowledging it and asking what would be helpful to you, what would feel supportive to you, you know, do you want me to bring up this, this specific situation?
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Is that hurtful or harmful to you?
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And so, just being honest and bringing it up, the worst thing I would say you could do is not acknowledge it, like that's so painful.
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And so, even if they don't wanna talk about it, at least acknowledge that there's a pain in their life.
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And hey, if you don't wanna talk about it, and that's the best way for me to support you, then great.
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And if you want me to talk about it, and that's the best way for me to support you, then great.
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And if you want me to talk about it, then great.
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But I would say, find out.
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Okay, can you tell us a little bit about your resources you provide?
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That would help our audience, who are also navigating the same struggles.
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Yeah, so I wrote my book called Grief, grief, loss and the goodness of God.
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For those who are listening, I'm actually giving my book away for free as a free download on my website.
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Um, I really feel passionate about helping resource people with with just resources that are going to help them, and I I the way I wrote my book.
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Every chapter is topical and so, um, it really deals with the topics of the different stages of grief that you go through and, um, it has kind of reflective questions, things to engage with, and so, uh, I wanted it to be practical and helpful for someone who is walking through grief, and so I'm giving that book away as a free download on my website.
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If you visit my website, bridget Dunbarcom, forward slash grief, and, um, you know I, I also have other resources If you just go to Bridget Dunbarcom, um, on there as well, for anyone who just is looking for a breakthrough, you know, maybe, maybe you're not going through deep, deep grief, but you're going through something difficult.
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I have, you know, a whole.
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I have a bunch of resources and services on my website that will help anyone who's looking for a breakthrough.
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What advice or actionable tips would you offer to our listeners who are currently navigating grief and loss?
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I would say figure out what it is you need At whatever stage you're at.
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First of all, give yourself permission to be right where you're at.
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There is no good, bad, right, wrong in grieving.
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Every person's experience is so unique and individual to them.
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And so figure out where you're really at, be honest with your heart and be honest with yourself, and then identify what you need and don't be afraid to ask for that.
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You know so it might.
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You might need some just time by yourself and to you know, just be able to have time with the Lord or whatever, and not be.
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And to you know, just be able to have time with the Lord or whatever, and not be bombarded, you know, with messages right now or people visiting or whatever Like.
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Ask for that.
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Let people know what you need and give yourself permission to receive whatever it is that you need.
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As we get ready to end here, what would you say to my listeners today who are wrestling with their faith in God right now as a result of their suffering, as a result of, you know, a breakthrough that they may need?
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Yeah, I would say wrestling with God is natural and normal process of life.
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With God is natural and normal process of life.
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You know, life is hard, relationships are hard, things kind of hit you out of the blue.
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We can't like life's unpredictable, and so it's not a bad thing to wrestle with God or wrestle with your faith.
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What I would suggest is that you actually wrestle with God, that you don't shut him out, but you go face-to-face with Him.
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And I even have another resource on my website of just having heart-to-heart prayer conversations with God.
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And how do you do that?
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And so, if you don't know, you can start there.
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But I think, just being honest about where you're at, and not shutting the door to God, but understanding that God is so much bigger than what we're going through right now, like I went through a whole grief thing for I mean years.
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Like my process was years long and I'm now at the point where I can look back and see God's goodness.
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Where I wasn't able to see it then I see it now.
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And now I feel like if I hadn't gone through all the things that I'd gone through and God and invited God to walk with me through that, I don't know if I'd be where I'm at today, and I have, you know, I'm remarried, I have a beautiful life, we're, you know, expecting a child on the way, and I just I'm so grateful for everything I went through because it formed me to be the person I am today, and I think that what that took was me really wrestling with God and letting Him be God, like letting Him show up and show off in my life, even if in the moment it didn't look like he was there.
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Yeah Well, Bridget, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
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We greatly appreciate having you.
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Thank you so much.
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I'm so honored, definitely.
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Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for listening.
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Again, please go and check out Bridget's website and please like and share this podcast and leave a comment on all the podcast platforms.
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And until next time, god bless, bye-bye.
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